And then there were 15…
Thanks to everyone that came to class tonight!! I appreciate you letting me share my podcast and I hope you get a chance to respond to my 4th graders. The workshop for the revised piece you brought went really well too…I heard some great discussion going on…I was amazed at how well you took to the dialectic journal response and was even more impressed that several of you used it as a reference during our Reading Workshop for chapter 12…remember…if you have anything else to say on the topic…we’re all ears!!
Moving forward…next week we’ll be workshopping the draft you bring in for your Position Piece…we’ll also be discussing chapter 13 of Elements of Argument. Please post comments and questions about chapter 13 here prior to coming to next week’s class…
Again…thanks for the great class tonight!!!
November 2nd, 2006 at 5:58 pm
I just read the first essay on chapter 13 and wanted to comment on it even though
I’m not near done reading. It was the “How Has Terrorism Affected the American Idea
of Justice” one about the USA PATRIOT act. A lot of what was said shocked me. The
biggest thing being that a lot of these laws werent passed until after the
September 11th attack. I would have thought that many of them would have always been
laws. For example, investigators are now able to use tools that were already used in
investigating crimes and drug use. I was amazed that they just started relating that
to terrorism! I think that terrorism is a greater issue than drug use… just look at
what it did to our country. I’ve never heard of an inicdent where drugs caused this much
of an uproar. There were many others passed besides this one that I found astonishing
such as increasing the penalties for those who commit terrorist crimes. I dont know much
about history and dont ever watch the news, but it makes me wonder if this was the first
terrorist attack… why werent there laws like this before?
November 2nd, 2006 at 9:40 pm
As I’m getting older, I’m obviously becoming more and more interested in the world I live in and where it’s going in the future. Perhaps, it’s because my boyfriend is in the service and I am thinking a lot about how that is going to affect us in the future. This summer he will be gone for 10 weeks, with only 2 phone calls to make. He’s a pilot and plans to fly Apache helicopters with the Air National Guard. I don’t know enough about the war to really be for or against it, I do know too many innocent lives have been lost and if we pull out now, what was the use in going in in the first place? Anyways, I, along with the majority of the general public complain about the long lines because of increased security at airports and such, HOWEVER I would not want it any other way. I don’t think America as a whole will ever feel as “secure” as we once did, and as a result I APPRECIATE the men and women who put theirlives on the line and the family members that allow them to do so, so may be we one day will feel safe in our home (USA).
November 7th, 2006 at 12:26 am
That was an interesting chapter. I am not too big on politics and legal jargon. I did not like how some parts of our laws have all those generalizations in them. That left error for people to decide what is right and wrong, then did the wrong thing, and tried to reason that it was right. There were a lot of interesting things to consider though. I liked the last essay about the femenists. They are funny :).
November 7th, 2006 at 12:40 pm
Lots of honesty in these comments…one of the reasons I assigned this chapter is because I knew that most of you weren’t “tuned in” to these issues…however…they are a HUGE part of both your reality as well as mine. In order to understand the world around…you need to read about what’s going on…form an opinion and discuss these opinions with others…how else are we going to be able to learn (in this case) from the mistakes that our government is making currently and the affect of these mistakes? It isn’t an accident that I assigned this reading just days before the elections…how many of you voted today? How many of you know enough about what’s going on around you at the local, state and national level to even want to vote?? We have a lot to discuss this coming Wednesday…I’m very excited to see where the discussion goes!!
November 7th, 2006 at 2:36 pm
The Patriot Act to me seems like it invades alot of our personal rights that have been defined
in the Constitution. The FBI and other organizations can look at my personal “confidential” records
without telling me! I just checked out a bunch of book about gangs for our research paper, but what
if I was researching active terrorist groups, would I be put under surveillance for picking
out suspicious books?
November 8th, 2006 at 2:33 am
Ok, so I was dreading reading this chapter because all you hear about when you turn on the TV is terrorism, and American justice and topics of the like. But after I made myself sit down and take the time to read the articles tonight, I found them really interesting. I’ve heard of the Patriot Act many times, but I never really understood what it was or what it involved, so this chapter cleared that up. I thought the “before Reading” section on page 543 posed a good question “How far should our government go in trying to elicit from prisoners information that might prevent future attacks?” I know it is often debated that our country is not informed of what goes on in political affairs and that information is often witheld form us, but personally, I am probably happier NOT knowing all that goes on (all the threats, etc.) b/c I think i’d be crazy with being afraid all the time. I kind of think that we elect them to represent us and do what they think is right in their judgement, which might not always be right, but they are human, could we do better in the situations they face?
November 8th, 2006 at 3:41 am
I was reading “A Tortured Debate”, starting on page 543, and I thought it was interesting how far officials would go to torture their victims into giving up information. It mentioned various torture techniques such as “physical roughing up; sensory, food, and sleep deprivation; and a ‘water pit’ in which detainees have to stand on tip-toe to keep from drowning.” I saw this as somewhat interesting to see how officials will go about getting information. I was also looking on page 554 at question 2 which asked, “Do you feel that the use of torture is ever justified?” I saw this as a really hard question to simply straight-up answer yes or no to. This really got me thinking deeper into the subject matter and definitely proved itself as a very circumstantial question.
November 8th, 2006 at 10:23 am
I kind of liked this chapter, although it was kind of boring..but i never really knew much about the patriot act before reading this except that the government could invade our privacy anytime they wanted so now i have learned more about it and what else the patriot act intails.
November 8th, 2006 at 11:28 am
I don’t know. Like most people said politics and such isn’t something I’m really tuned into. Kinda makes me feel bad now that I think about it. I mean all this stuff really does go on and most of us aren’t even aware of it. I really don’t have a position on the war, exept that I don’t like the terrorists haha but then again I think we all feel the same way on that one. I knew about the whole government can invade your privacy but then does that really make it privacy? I don’t know. I think that there should be lines that the government DEF can’t cross. But maybe that’s just me rambling on and on in my head….
November 8th, 2006 at 11:45 am
Definately enjoyed the reading…I try to stay informed on the major issues of today. Although, it bothers me that the specific outlines for the treatment of prisoners of war stated in the Geneva Convention seems to forget that the prisoners are not just ‘ordinary’ prisoners. These are peopl who literally hate everything that America stands for and will stop at nothing to destroy. I do not think that the inhumane treatment of any person can ever be a means to justify the end. I’m just saying, they’ve abused their right of justice. So stop being so sympathetic to the enemy who if given the chance will not hesitate to kill you in cold blood…but chapter 13 was very informative and gave me a better understanding of the specifics of the Patriot Act, war on terrorism, etc…
November 8th, 2006 at 1:21 pm
I have never really liked politics and that sorta stuff but i still found this chapter to be interesting. I have always known about the patriot act and that its another way for the government to invade our privacy but now i fully understand the law.
November 8th, 2006 at 1:33 pm
Before I decided to make my comment, I wanted to thouroughly read through everyone elses just to kind of see what everyone’s thoughts were on the matter. Some of you may already know that I am very big on politics and everything that basically the government entails. I just thought it interesting that nobody mentiond 1984 by George Orwell. In my high school Modern Literature class, 1984 was one of the required books for us to read. With reading the book came many different types of actvities and learning methods, we learned about different types of propoganda so on and so forth, we had to do a debate on wether we thought that the society that we are living in today is becoming an Orwellian society, where “Big Brother is watching you”. My personal opinion of it all, is that so many people are forgetting about what happened on September 11th, and how everyone was gung-ho about everything, war hell yeah everyone said let’s kick there butts, the patriot act, it is only there to protect us, tightened security, of course, if you have nothing to be worried about then what is it invading. Unless you are doing something wrong or if they suspect you for something then that is when they will “invade your privacy”, who cares it is to protect the American citizens you and me!!!… when we discuss this in class I will try not to open my mouth so much, but I will have to mention something about the “torturing”
November 8th, 2006 at 1:39 pm
ok so i’ve been working on my position piece. I’ve been chaning things,
adding things and I’ve got just over two pages now. I’m really liking this
assignment a lot because it is on something I enjoy. I’m still working
on the little problems here and there. i haven’t put on the quoting and
paraphrasing stuff on it, but i feel that it’s going to be a great paper!
November 8th, 2006 at 2:58 pm
Whew the Patriot Act is a scary thing. I don’t like the fact that I could and probably am constantly under surveilance. I agree that we need to keep tabs on any possible threat to the US, but I don’t like having my privacy invaded. I don’t know if this really makes us feel more secure. Seems to me that since Sept 11th, no matter what we do people will always be paranoid about the next big terrorist attack.
November 8th, 2006 at 3:04 pm
Sorry this is so late Tony….I’ve had ALOT of internet issues these past couple days. Now, about the chapter….I think that this chapter brings up the most controversial issues in today’s society….about terrorism and the war. As the younger generation, I think many of us aren’t really sure what to make of all this. We understand that many lives were lost on September 11th and that many lives continue to be lost in Iraq, but we don’t really know enough about the logistics/reasoning behind us going to war. Some say it is because Iraq has valuble resources that we want, like oil…and others believe that we are trying to help them find their way and get back on their feet by setting up a democracy. I don’t know if anyone else feels this way, but sometimes when the news comes on and I hear about everything that’s going on with the war, I dont even care to listen to it anymore. I simply turn the tv off and find something else to do. I just wish that all of this would go away….the killings, the bombings, the kidnappings, the media coverage…everything!
November 8th, 2006 at 3:42 pm
Wow, I loved this chapter!!!! The subject of national security after 9/11 is a really hard issue to find any commomn ground or compromise. I agree with some of the things the Patriot Act does like the sharing of info. between agencies and thougher penalties to those who carry out terrorist activities. But i don’t like the fact that the Patriot Act also allows Big Brother like activity with no regard to the Constitution. It’s kind of scary that the predictions of 1984 and Brave New World are coming true and nobody cares. This isn’t how democracy is supposed to work. But I guess within these circumstances some people feel like they can’t “hinder” the terrorist hunt. THE world has gone crazy.
November 8th, 2006 at 3:46 pm
I liked this chapter like most people did. It was pretty interesting to see more than one aspect of the Patriot Act. In high school, we were just basically told that it did nothing but invade our privacy, but this shed some more light onto the subject, even though I still personally think that Patriot Act sucks.
November 8th, 2006 at 4:16 pm
Hey everyone! I just finished reading chapter 13. At this point in my life, I am somewhat interested in politics and this crazy world which we live. I enjoy learning new things about laws and policies so I can create my own opinion about them. Like Erica, I have a close friend of mine that is enlisted in the Navy and will be leaving for Japan for two years on Thanksgiving. Therefore, I found the chapter interesting and very informative. I thought the cartoon on page 529 was an interesting way for the authors, Jennifer Hahn and Wasim Salfiti, to express their opinion about the Patriot Act. I do not know if I fully agree with the Patriot Act. I believe that it has both good and bad parts; however, I do think we need some kind of laws to protect us from terrorists. I do not know how to fix the terrorist problem, but I sure do wish someone would find out quickly. J
November 8th, 2006 at 4:26 pm
Wow…this was so interesting to read…so much going on in these comments…most of you
gravitated toward talking about the Patriot Act…I saw some real feelings about terrorism
as well as the war…I guess I can say…MISSION ACCOMPLISHED…my intent was to highten
your awareness of these issues…your comments indicate that you’ve at least started seeing
the value in “staying on top” of this stuff…I can’t wait to hear what you have to say in
class!!
November 8th, 2006 at 5:08 pm
Personally, I do not mind if my privacy is being invaded…The Patriot Act is intended to provide added protection for the citizens of America.
I am really saddened by the fact that we even have such an act, however. It is a wake up call for me. Evil exists in this world, and it is terrifying.
November 8th, 2006 at 5:36 pm
I’m not going to lie to you guys, I have never really been very interested in Politics, or American History or foreign affairs etc.
So, needless to say, this chapter was, well, quite boring to me. I found the PATRIOT act articles intriguing, like how the government can just say “look, were going to look through your stuff and theres nothing you can do about it, but to be honest with you, I’ve always figured that they could do somthing along those lines.
November 8th, 2006 at 5:45 pm
I VOTED!
November 8th, 2006 at 5:51 pm
Kelly…thanks for weighing in…Zach…what’s boring about learning that your rights are
being taken away from you right under your nose as you jam on your iPod? Are you ok with
this? If so…why? If not…why not!!?? I appreciate you taking the time to comment…
Brandon…YEAH…glad to hear that you voted!!!
November 8th, 2006 at 5:55 pm
I know what Zach is talking about because I’m not really all that interested in politics either. All of the information on the national security act after 9/11 was fairly neat though. I don’t necessarily agree with the Patriot Act and our privacy rights but I guess I see where it could benefit our safety.
November 8th, 2006 at 6:02 pm
Julie…do you not think that it’s important to be “on top” of current events…especially
if they affect you??!! You’re too young to be apathetic!! What happens to our society if we
become a bunch of citizens that just don’t care??
November 8th, 2006 at 6:41 pm
Ok so I’m taking a break from work right now and stealing someones labtop…well stealing isnt a good verb…borrowing maybe. Reguardless I’m obviously at work and this has to remain short…(I should make it to class just very very late or maybe I’ll catch you [tony] afterwards…alas) So our chapter….Iwas actually going to start of saying that this stuff was mildly (and mildly may be too strong) interesting. It’s not really things that interest me at all…then i noticed people were being scolded (not really best verb for now). I really dont know what else to say…I do care but then not really. It’s weird…for example I voted but only because my grandpa said you better vote and it better be for this person. Maybe thats why I’m not really into politics. I did however find it interesting to pick up little bits of knowledge…for example…the government can pretty much do what they want when they want…huh…they could totally invade my space (not the website..haha)…but then again I really dont think that personal space is guarunteed in the constitution…just implied but i could be wrong. I really dont think I know enough to form my own opinions about these issues …if I were more educated in this area I probably wouldn’t have found it boing. well my break is up hopefully I’ll catch you guys.